[tmtranscripts] S.E. Idao Transcript June 10, 2003

[Bill Kelly]

S.E. Idaho TeaM
6-10-03

Daniel(Bill): A cone of energy is over us now.  The movement is from the
top down through each of your minds and souls and back up again, back to
the source.  The energy also swirls clockwise through your hands.  The room
is jam packed with personalities of pure spirit, or morontia being.  Your
Seraphim angels are here, your faithful midwayers, also.  You are
surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses.  You are in the cosmic family.
Greetings.  I am Daniel, your teacher, your guide, your friend, and your
brother.  Let us pray.

Our Father, thank You for everything: our lives, our personalities, our
wonderful journey of destiny fulfillment.  Thank You for creating a world
where people can be in relationship to each other, even as You are in
relationship to the Son and to the Spirit.   Thank You for the beauty that
pervades the universe in its structure, in its meaning, and in its truth.
I thank You for my charges here tonight, my friends, who come once again
because they are spiritually hungry and have found here the sustenance for
their souls.  Bless us altogether that we may learn something new, that we
may find opportunity to express Your love, even as Michael has shown us, we
pray.  Amen,.

Aaron(Bob D.):   Greetings.  This is Aaron   I amplify my presence upon my
student this evening, giving him an opportunity to communicate my words as
he has shown willingness to open up.  The enjoyment I have  witnessing your
interaction is at a high level...I will approach a different way.  The
mission I have this evening with you is twofold: one, to allow Bob the
opportunity to attempt to receive such as he has not done so for a while;
but I would also like to impress upon you my feelings of thanksgiving.  I
relish your interaction and your ability to communicate lightheartedly as
well as in discussion over the prior lessons.  I imagine that you feel a
deeper sense of comprehension at times, where you can read through the
lessons with each other, discussing their merits and insights we offer.
Simeon is hesitant when I ask if you could share this evening about this
process of studying the transcripts with each other.  I would...
(Transmission interrupted)

Bob D.: I can't do it.  I don't feel comfortable to do this tonight.  I
have to back out.  I am not quite ready yet.  (Group discussion about TRing
discomfort and request for substitute TR.  No takers from other group
members, but lots of laughter until...)

Aaron(Bill): My friends, I continue.  Thank you, Bob, for your efforts.
They were excellent.  You were simply like an athlete who was once used to
the feel of the sport and then laid it aside for a while.  The comfortable
feeling that you have lost is the repetitious sameness and commonality of
that exercise, so that when you go back to it the muscles are sore, the
senses are acute, the effort is quite strenuous, for the experience is
almost as though you are starting over.  At the same time, practice effects
are not diminished and therefore even though it was uncomfortable to you,
you were able to do the job.  I would suggest that we have some sessions
together and practice for the conference.  Would that be agreeable to you?

Bob D: Sure.

Aaron: Okay, fine.  Then you will be back in the saddle again.

I would like to elicit feedback from you regarding your experience of using
the previous week's lesson as a review process and a discussion.  Because
this mission is basically experimental, and always has been, we like to get
a direct participatory reaction from all of you who are our students so
that we can improve our teaching techniques and/or we can verify the
advisability of those procedures which we are using.  So, how do you feel
about reading last week's lesson?  Address that issue and make a
recommendations about whether or not it should be continued.  I will start
with you, Pat. (Laughter)

Pat: Thank you, Aaron.  Well I feel that it has been invaluable for me!  We
are able to read it a few days after the initial lesson and then come to
the next meeting and read it again with everyone's input.  It certainly
helps my understanding.  So I would certainly like to continue with it.  

Aaron: Very good.  Thank you.  Ken?

Ken: Greetings to you.  Welcome, Aaron.  I might say that the lessons
provided to us have much food for soul growth!  The listening to the
lessons, the reading of the lesson, and then the discussion of the lessons
is a tremendous educational tool.  Listening to each person read and
discuss points of interest within the lessons brings those people out and
enlightens the rest of us.  I do not want to see it discontinued.  It is
very beneficial.  Sometimes there is so much food on the platter, I don't
know what to sample first.  But that's fine, as long as I sample.  Thank
you, Aaron.

Aaron: Thank you very much.  You both have emphasized the threefold nature
of the process: hearing the lessons, reading it later, and finally
discussing it.  The fourth activity is the teaching of the truths learned
in the lesson.  All four are aspects of learning.  As your proficiency
increases, you will naturally share these insights, which you are already
doing, with your friends, your family and so forth.  

Bob, I realize you have a limited participation with us, but you are a
professional teacher.  Therefor, I value your opinion on this process, as
well.

Bob P.: It fits my learning style.  I think that in the times that I do
participate I tend to get more out of the reading and discussion than I do
the actual transmission, just because of its staccato nature.  It is easier
to have the thought all together on the page and get through it that way in
discussion.  I think that if there is such a thing as spiritual cognition,
this is where it actually occurs.  I think that this process has been very
helpful, more so than, perhaps, the social aspect of it was, prior to this
practice.  There was a sharing which I felt was a nice social piece of the
meeting.  But I feel that the learning aspects have increased since this
has started.

Aaron: Thank you very much.  I am particularly interested in your
assessment of the use of time where there was the social sharing, quite
personal at times, which time slot is now taken up with the discussion of
the lessons.

Bob P.: Can I interject again?  (Certainly) I think that part of the value
of the social was to bond the group to the point of feeling comfortable in
a lot of aspects of spiritual growth.  I hate to catagorize on a single end
something that could be thought of as a continuum, as the group tends to
disperse in the cycles it goes through.  It is, to me, possible that some
of that social is necessary so that people can reconnect.  Once that
re-connection is established, then the spiritual cognition can take place
again.  I don't want to sound like it all has to be learning without the
social connection, because there is clearly something to the group dynamic
and the group intimacy that has to occur that also adds to the spiritual
dynamic.  I think it is an art.  It is not a science or something that can
be necessarily scripted from week to week.  But I do feel that as the group
begins to grow again, some of that social aspect is necessary.  

Aaron: And you don't have a degree in psychology?

Bob P.: Actually, I have a psychology minor in my Ph.D. (Group gasps and
laughs.  This wasn't known before.)

Aaron: Absolutely you are correct in saying there first has to be
commitment and trust between people before there can be deep sharing.
And, yes, spiritual cognition is a perfect phrase for what happens here.
It is all on a continuum, for the realm of spiritual growth is not
something that occurs in isolation.  Spiritual growth is always involved in
a matrix of relationships.  It has to be done that way.  It was your dear
spouse's initiation of this sharing process, which we prompted and
encouraged, which led to the initial breaking down of barriers between
people, as well as excitement of the dawning reality that this was not
merely a head trip of egoistic individuals who wanted to be show offs and
TR's, but rather was, in truth, the same contact that had occurred in the
production of the Urantia Papers.   So you are also correct in that we
project that gradually this experience will become more credible, will
become more self authenticating.  Well, thank you for your input.  I truly
appreciate the input of all of you in this group.  Isaac will have the last
word, as a matter of fact.  Virginia, what is your opinion on this process?

Virginia: Well, the three things that have been mentioned by others, that
we hear it, go home and read it, and then we share it in talking about it
is all very valuable to me.  Is also confirming to me to find the Urantia
Book also comments on these things, as Ken brought tonight the reference to
the seven dimensions in paper 112.  My own doubts on some of the things I
transmit, as in "change in the descending sons"...I really questioned that.
 It was very nice to have it confirmed that even the Creator Sons change
when they achieve Sovereignty status.  I think the sharing is very valuable
for those of us who are not sure how valid their contributions are.   Also
the insight about what it means to another person, a phrase that might
stick out, becomes more meaningful to the listeners.  So again, I just
think it is very valuable.  I certainly realize that we are far more open
in our group, that we are more accepting of diversity.  

Aaron: Very good, Virginia.  You have underlined the points made by others
and by your agreement you reinforce the fact that this is an inherently
useful process.  It is, of course, the technique that is used throughout
the universe.  The only part that we don't mandate is how you go about the
teaching of that which you are learning.  The teaching to others of what is
learned is the capstone of the learning process and the completion of the
learning curve.  It is a demonstration that you have true knowledge.

Now, Bob, I will ask for your response and then I will ask you to put on
the TR hat again so that Isaac will respond to me through you.  Will that
be acceptable?

Virginia: May I interrupt here while Bob gets ready?  I had a point to
make.  In our discussion of the lesson it reinforces in my mind some of the
issues.  I find that I am using these insights in the women's support
group.  They just come to mind!

Aaron: That was point number four.

Virginia: I am using the teaching, as you had said, only because it has
been reinforced so many times that it is in my mind, on my tongue, and so I
say it.  I apologize to Bob, here, and to Aaron for my interruption.

Aaron: Rather than apologize, jump up and down and rejoice!    Your
learning has become teaching.

I observe that Nancy has come back into the room.  So I will ask for her
input, then Bob D.'s input.  Then either Nancy or Bob D. can TR me so I can
listen to Isaac.  Nancy, do you understand the question?

Nancy: Yes. 

Aaron: What is your opinion?

Nancy: It is an excellent learning tool for all the reasons mentioned.  My
understanding of learning certainly follows that pattern.  Even as a
student I would want to read before I went to a lecture, then listen to the
lecture taking notes.  Then I would go over my notes.  Finally I would have
to answer questions as a teacher's aide or as an instructor, etc.  But it
was in being the instructor that I really learned the information.  All the
rest was precursor.  

Back to the question of the usefulness of this...it is very useful to me
because I get to participate so sporadically.  I get two lessons at once.
(Laughter) I am generally not here for the session that we read and
discuss, but I get that opportunity.  I like it because of the doubling up
nature of the learning exposure experience.

Aaron: Yes, a very interesting point.  Thank you for making that.  Your
obligation of raising your young one is your first duty in life right now
and so, while we miss your presence, and Bob as well, have no negative
feelings about this.  It is necessary to do what you do.  Very well, Bob,
what is your opinion?

Bob D.: I second the opinion about doubling up.  It is nice to be able to
discuss and then also get another lesson.  In reading through old
transcripts I read recently about the series of lessons on systems a few
years back, on healthy system functioning.  It seemed to me that the
process is a very good way for people to open up and share their thoughts
in a healthy environment where we aren't judging each other, although we do
often critique different points in the lessons or other thoughts.  It seems
to me that it's a way of building healthy system functioning.  Other than
that, everything I could have said has been said.  

I do think it is a good idea to review as it is too easy to hear a lesson
and then let it go.  A lot of times I get the lesson in the email and what
I do is scanning rather than reading with comprehension.  I scan for
anything that may jump out at me, but I don't read for comprehension
quietly.  I just read on the screen.  It is kind of nice to focus and
actually discuss with my friends and fellow students.  Those are my thoughts.

Aaron(Bill): I am glad you made the point that not being a part of the
original meeting results in a varying degree of value in later reading the
transcript by yourself.   But when you read in the discussion format it is
much more valuable than reading a group's transcript when you do not know
how it would have been to actually have been present.  That is probably the
least effective way to do these lessons.  Yet, even that is valuable.

Are you in a position where you can hear my words now?

Bob D.: I will try.  I don't have that sense of absolute knowing.  I've
never had the sense of absolute knowing.

Aaron(Bill): I suggest you just relax and see what happens.

Bob D.: I'll try.

Aaron(Bob D.): This is Aaron.  Thank you, Simeon, for your efforts.  Isaac,
indeed it is your turn to offer your thoughts toward the process, if you
would.

Bill/Isaac: Yes, Aaron. As a TR I am never sure exactly about everything
that is said.  I feel somewhat disconnected from the process.  It is like a
discovery for me to read on paper ( as I either transcribe it or read
another transcriber's typing) what was said.  It invariably reads better
than my impression of it as it comes out of my mouth, anyway.  Now, if I
wasn't the TR and just a group participant, I would tend to agree with Bob
P., that the reading is still better in terms of understanding content than
the oral transmission.  The transmission process is sometimes slowed down,
interrupted.  You can't figure out the meaning as well.  I agree that the
threefold process has certainly made a difference.

I want to say something about the lack of doing our sharing in a formal
sense like we used to do.  Once in a while I wish we would do that because
I am nosey.  I would like to know what is going on in people's lives.  But
being nosey may not have any spiritual value.  Nancy has her hand up.  I
will let her interrupt me.  Go ahead, Nancy.

Nancy: I've enjoyed the intellectual exchange that we have with the
discussion, but I do miss that much deeper intimacy.  I don't know if other
people experienced that intimacy, but I felt intimate with people when I
shared at a deeper level about the "real" level of struggle, as well as
heard what was going on in other's lives.  That built for me a sense of
trust.   With my sporadic involvement I probably wouldn't achieve that
level of intimacy now anyway, because that type of intimacy takes
regularity and a real level of commitment and a time commitment.   

Aaron(Bob D.):   Yes, I understand that this element of sharing does have
value and this is certainly something that you can consider as a group,
possibly instituting occasionally.  I can see how it would aide the other
steps of learning that you have discussed this evening.  Part of the
exercise this evening is not only for you to give us feedback, but also for
you to reaffirm for each other the value you receive in interacting and
discussing these lessons.  The intimacy aspects, if introduced, could bring
about potentially a deeper level of learning for some people.  Again, this
would be in your realm of decision making rather than ours, for we can
approach you where your willingness lies and interface with you at the
level of that willingness.  I thank you for sharing this evening on this
topic.  I would allow you to ask questions, if you have any.

Bill: Well, this isn't a question, Aaron.  It is just sort of a summary
comment.  I heard no disagreement about reading the previous lesson from
anyone, so I am assuming that our unanimity on this is clear.  You have
spoken to Nancy and me about our wish to have a little of the older type of
sharing.  I heard you say occasional which I think makes sense to me, too.
We can't, time wise, do both in the same meeting.  It is simply impossible.
 We also used to read from the Urantia Book and do healing.  All of it has
been good, I think.  I wasn't asking a question so much as I was giving my
opinion, I guess, about our evening tonight.  I thank you very much for
bringing up this topic.  I think it's been a really interesting time.

Nancy: I have an observation.  The value for me in listening the first time
is not necessarily in the lesson.  It feels like if I open my heart space
and I am in a meditative state, a real listening state, which is difficult
for everybody now that I bring a little girl into the experience, I feel
like I am getting things at unconscious levels  as well as cognitive
levels.  Somehow it is rearranging my mental constructs in a very physical,
very real sense that is different from cognitive thoughts, which is what I
experience when I read it.  So that was a level of learning that we didn't
discuss tonight.  I was wondering, Aaron, if you had any comments about
that part of the learning experience, that is valuable from just listening
and being open during the actual TRing?

Aaron: Yes.  The energy circuits are between you and each of you and
between the contact point.  That allows the flow to give some opportunity
for an extra-conscious awareness.  If you find it difficult to pick up the
audible communication, we have often recognized the ability of students to
fall into a receptive meditative state which allows for a clearing in their
mental circuits and potentials for coordination.  Trying to focus, however,
and perceive the lesson as it comes through is an active process and does
have merit for building your attention capacities, while the activity of
perceiving energy and falling into a receptive state is more of a passive
activity.  While each have their value, there is something to be said for
truly trying to hear the audible lesson, as well.  Does this offer you any
understanding?

Nancy: Yes, Aaron.  That is very helpful.  I've even experienced both at
once where I vary in following and thinking questions.  But at the same
time, feeling an openness and enlargement that was more than at brain
level.  And then I have also had the experience of not being aware of what
was said because I felt like I was deep in receptivity at the time the
lesson was going on and had to read it later.  I think I have been in all
three places in a meeting: where I have been just interacting cognitively
and had this other that was going on simultaneously; and then where I have
been passive in receptivity.  I personally like the middle option best
where I am alert, aware, and thinking but also feeling very opened and
receptive at the same time.  I can have that receptivity and openness at
the same time when I read.  I can have that information get filed away
differently when if that openness isn't there when I read.

Aaron: Thank you for your follow up to my thoughts for the dual state that
you speak of.  We do recognize that at times among you all and it truly is
the ideal state for learning, if you can achieve this.  It is a
mobilization of your will to learn and your openness to receive.  This
would signify a state of harmony in this place that you speak of 

Nancy: Thank you.

Daniel(Bill): This is Daniel.  Thank you, Aaron, for leading your excellent
discussions.  Thank you Simeon for stepping into the stirrups, swinging
your leg over, and nudging your horse forward.  You are back in the saddle
again.  Will you all stand and take your hands as we conclude our meeting.

Bob P.: I have a question.  Is it too late?

Daniel: Proceed.

Bob P.: Well, earlier in Aaron's transmission we talked about hearing,
reading, and discussing as the steps in the learning process.  It was
stated that teaching was the eventual outcome.  One of the things that I
have personally like about this spiritual framework was that the actual
teaching came through the living.  When that was stated I was kind of
feeling a parallel about Jesus sending His apostles out to tame the masses.
 I was hoping that wasn't the parallel that was intended because to me it
sounds driven by something other than a living from within and teaching
from within kind of approach.  I have heard reference to it in...we are at
the stage now where some of us or all of us are going to charge out and
actually start the teaching part.  In fact it was referenced as kind of
converting or winning new participants.  So that makes me real uneasy.

Daniel: I am not sure which teacher or in which setting you have obtained
that impression.  It is probably due to the use of language which is
suggestive of the kind of missionary work that Jesus sent his apostles to
do.  But if you ask me to tell you that the reaction that you have
indicated, that teaching comes from within and overflowing rather than
knocking on the door, handing out pamphlets, Urantia Books, getting up on a
stump somewhere and preaching to the people at Times Square....we have been
advocating exactly what you are saying.  As Virginia pointed out, she has
dropped these concepts in other groups in a natural and perfectly normal
manner; and the process has been teaching.  So, let me assure you that your
anxiety is unnecessary.

Bob P.: Thank you.

Virginia: However, we have all felt that, Daniel.

Bob D.: What do they want me to do!

Ken: Bob is ready to go out and buy a two pant  missionary suit.  (Laughter)

Bob P.: I got two pairs of Jeans.  Sorry.

Daniel: In the interests of time let me give you a final statement.  Let us
go to world we live in and do the work that we do best with a full heart,
showering the love which empowers us upon all we meet.  Rejoice always in
the joy of eternal life which has begun now for all who are willing to move
toward Paradise and the Father of us all.  Amen.