[tmtranscripts] For Bob Devine/ Final thoughts/ Goodbye

[CPShiloh at aol.com]

For Bob...Final thoughts...New beginnings...
 
Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with  us, our life's Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from  afar;
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness, 
But  trailing clouds of glory do we come
>From God, who is our home:

What though the radiance which was once so bright 
Be  now for ever taken from my sight, 
Though nothing can bring back the hour  
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower; 
We will grieve not,  rather find 
Strength in what remains behind; 

In the primal sympathy 
Which having been must ever be; 
In  the soothing thoughts that spring 
Out of human suffering; 
In the faith  that looks through death, 
In years that bring the philosophic mind.  


Thanks to the human heart by which we live, 
Thanks to its  tenderness, its joys, and fears, 
To me the meanest flower that blows can  give 
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. 
 
Love to you
In His Grace
Christina
 
 
    Posted By:  devine on Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:25:33  AM   Subject:  
Final thoughts / Goodbye    Message:  One does not have to be a  listop to 
point out the truth or to ask questions. Is this actually about  power? Perhaps 
me challenging perceived authority? Remember that the  listops serve the list, 
not the other way around. 

And yet I do  have site administrator privileges, along with Russ, who gave 
them to me a  while ago, which allowed us the ability to investigate 
allegations, and  find a little more truth. And when I reported it to the listops on one 
 list of a larger overall site, I get chastised and the truth found out  gets 
ignored. 

Steffani when you tell me I'm not a listop, you are  quite correct. Now look 
in the mirror and say that again. Ask yourself why  you need to respond to 
every single post that makes any reference to the  issue of the Rob Reno 
situation with a defense. 

What I realized  this morning, is that tml, as a living room, is doomed to 
fail. If just  being together, hanging out, and chatting is the point, at some 
point when  we get bored or have nothing to say, we will begin to point out 
what we  don't like about someone else, and their ideas and then likewise and so  
on. 

The lists that are functional, from what I see, are those  where it is the 
goals, rather than the beliefs which are the purpose.  

When Jesus held the remembrance supper he said that he didn't call  people 
together to just be together, but to actually do something. And I  think therein 
lies the challenge and part of the problem. 

The  other problem is fear. What someone will take from us that we hold dear 
or  diminish in us. When this is the motivation for our actions, the outcome  
can never be all that enlightened. 

My fear has been that some here  would take the last vestiges of dignity from 
this list by making decisions  for it without the facts and to thereby remove 
people whom they fear...  much like the country did after 9/11. 

John Stephan and Rob Reno  have been removed, without any warning privately 
from what I understand.  The fear expressed was that they would corrupt us all 
and divide us. We've  done a pretty good job of that ourselves with no help 
from them now,  haven't we? 

The charge was that they were the same person, and  that they were spreading 
deceit, though one couldn't point to a particular  post and say this was the 
problem, nor could one show anyone the "smoking  gun" of evidence. 

The others (motajohn, peace.julia, roberta reno)  were already signed off the 
list, from what I've been told, but they  wouldn't be allowed back on. And 
now we're screening everyone that comes  in to make sure they're okay. 

My concern has been with a process  that isn't in alignment with the list 
guidelines. It's not because I don't  love Steffani or Oliver or others who were 
involved, nor is it because I  like Rob Reno. I very much do love these 
people, and probably wouldn't  have felt so strong about trying to correct it off 
the list first, if I  didn't feel this way about them. My feeling is that people 
have  overstepped their authority on this and elevated assumption to fact and 
 ignored facts in favor of assumptions. 

Perhaps even metaphorically  acting out of a desire to "not let the smoking 
gun come in the form of a  mushroom cloud." A desire to protect, but 
nonetheless coming out of fear  and not centered in the facts. 

To the extent that I acted out of  fear in response to my perceptions, I 
apologize. 

And with that, I  say goodbye, for this list no longer serves for me what I 
joined it to do.  I hope to work with various numbers of you in areas and 
places where we  can work on goals and purposes together, rather than centering 
around  beliefs. 

Much love to you,  
Bob
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