[tmtranscripts] NET #34, Feb. 12, 2018

[Roxanne Andrews]

PR

*New Era Transition #34 – Race; #MeToo; Moral behavior; Alternative to
Jails – Feb. 12, 2018*



*Machiventa Melchizedek, Planetary Manager*



Topics:

Your Christian heritage

Willing to do God’s Will

Co-creating with Christ Michael and the Celestials

Attribution in quotations

Debt jubilees

Race relations and the 7 core values

Being less than human

Cleansing negative thinking of others

Conflict between moral conscience and personal thoughts

Preparation for the changes to come

The 7 values and current movements in society

The age of materiality on a global level

Rise in human consciousness

Using shame as a deterrent

The alternative to jails

What is needed is a moral evaluation of behavior

Society’s moral responsibility to remove predators from society

The immaturity of our societies

Talking about capital punishment with others

Understanding the removal process

Human rights

Closing statements



TR:  Daniel Raphael, PhD



Team members present:  Roxanne Andrews, Liz Cratty, Jeff Cutler, Doug
Dodge, Stéphane Labonte



Invocation:  Liz



*February 12, 2018*



*MACHIVENTA:*  Good morning, this is Machiventa Melchizedek; it is good to
be with you again.



For those of you who have the Planetary Management macro-perspective of
your world and our work, you have probably noticed in the course of our
2-week meetings that we have been using what you might call, “filler
material” to fill-in the blank spaces as we wait for the development of the
events that will bring us into our co-creative implementation.  This
fill-in material is not light weight stuff, as you know; it is a
comfortable place to be to learn more about yourselves as spiritual beings
in growth.  And so today I will borrow another lesson from Rayson’s
notebook and add some material of my own.



*Your Christian heritage*



Most of you have had experience in one way or another with the Christian
Church in its various belief systems.  You have been given the commandments
to love one another, to live without sin and forethought of sin, and to be
in oneness with the Father.  This is the beginning of moving into an
attitude and belief system that is in alignment with the flow of the
universe and the Will of the Father.  Along the way, some of you have been
taught to pray for doing God’s Will, and many of you have learned what this
is in its various forms, sometimes very mistakenly by church organizations.
We have told you that simply doing God’s Will is to ask and pray for right
and perfect developments to come into your life as opportunities that lead
you into the course and fulfillment of your life plan and your life mission.
The third one is to do exactly that, to pray for those developments that
come into your life that lead you into your greatness, into the fulfillment
of your life plan.  One of the statements that we make [in] these prayers
and moving into this elevated state of your spiritual being and of growth
is that the harmful, hurtful, and the painful incidents along the way are
not caused by the Father or by us, and that there has never been an
intention to bring you pain and suffering.  It is simply that this is one
of the aspects of living a mortal life as a material being on a material
planet.  As you grow into your spiritual elevation and development, you
will see less and less of these painful incidents, and when they do come,
you will be able to interpret them accurately for what they really are.



*Willing to do God’s Will*



The fourth phase is to work in concert with us, to will to do God’s Will in
your life, and in working with us.  This is a most difficult transition or
plane of beingness in your spirituality, for most of you it is unknown as
to what that is.  This is where your meditation and your inner
conversations with your Thought Adjuster become paramount, and you ask for
your Thought Adjuster to assist you in these revelations.



*Co-creating with Christ Michael and the Celestials*



The fifth stage of all this is to then become a co-creative partner in the
Correcting Time with Christ Michael and with us.  This is where you
consciously become aware of your participation and the contribution you can
make.  For most of you who do not hear the inner voice, this may be most
difficult, but yet you proceed in faith and you continue to pray, meditate,
contemplate, reflect, and discern your thoughts in these conversations that
you have.  Even if you do not hear those conversations you have the
capacity to be in that oneness with spirit, and surely that does make a
very large impact on your thinking in your mind and your own
development.  These
five stages do not represent that they are a plan of growth for you, and as
you have seen through the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission, many of
you are listeners and readers, and there are a few who have become highly
active in our co-creative work, where you become conscious of yourself,
willing to participate with us to improve the conditions of your world for
this generation and for all future generations.



As you agondonters know so well that this is an almost intolerable
situation where you love God and you know that God loves you, that Christ
Michael and your Thought Adjuster have plans for you and need for you to
perform and work out your life growth in a positive, co-creative and
contributing way to the advancement of your world.  This is where your
faith comes into play; it is more than just *hope*; it is more than *faith,*
*belief,* and *trust*, it is “*KNOWING*.”  When you come to this stage of
knowing that you are one with God and God is one with you through your
Thought Adjuster, then you know that you are on track, whether you see it
or not.  You have a peace within you that passes all understanding.  You
accept or tolerate the difficulties in your life, but you understand them
more thoroughly and you realize that they are not personal—and they are not
tests—they are simply part of how you live your life.



This is the short version of the lesson today; it is something for you to
contemplate on, to think about and to then exercise your will as you think
it needs to be exercised to bring what you need into your life to
participate, or not.  It is always a decision to do God’s Will or not, and
oftentimes when you are in faith as agondonters, you do not see what that
is, yet you have faith knowing that you are being guided, and that is
essential to our relationship.



If you have questions concerning this or other presentations in the past,
or other questions unrelated to these issues, you are most welcome to bring
them forward now.



*Attribution in quotations*



*Jeff:*  Machiventa, this is Jeff.  (*Machiventa:*  Good morning.)  Good
morning, Sir.  If Liz and I were to quote your words in the material that
we are developing, or on the 7 core web site that we are developing, how do
you suggest we give attribution to your words?  Should we leave it
anonymous?  Can we use your given name—I don’t know much about
Melchizedeks, I don’t know how they get their names, but it is fair to say
that “Machiventa” is a given name?  Is that the correct…  (*Machiventa:*
Yes.)  So could we just use your quote and say, “Machiventa says…”?  Is
that acceptable?



*MACHIVENTA:*  I would refrain from doing so, as there is a mortal who goes
by the name of “Machiventa Melchizedek,” as he is the “armorer of light’
and when he speaks about the armorer, he means weapons, and the ambiguous
nature of his personal mission in this lifetime is cause for me to have
concern of you publishing my name as Machiventa Melchizedek.



*Jeff:*  I wasn’t planning to use “Melchizedek,” but if it’s okay, we will
just leave the attribution off.



*MACHIVENTA:*  Please and thank you.



*Debt jubilees*



*Jeff:*  I have one more question about that:  Long ago in some agrarian
societies, I guess particularly in the Mesopotamia area, debt jubilees were
employed as a sustainability mechanism—some were 75 years, and some were
the beginning of a new reign.  Is some form of that process compatible with
the 7 core values, that validation model?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, it is.  However there are many “howevers” involved in
giving that a positive nod.  Continue if you wish.



*Race relations and the 7 core values*



*Jeff:*  My last question today is, “Did the Lucifer Rebellion’s
interference with our DNA bring about the discrimination of people with
different skin color?  And if not, can the 7 core value model help to
ameliorate this human trait?”



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes to both questions.



*Jeff:*  Can you expound a little further on the second “yes?”



*MACHIVENTA:*  Most certainly. (Chuckling.)  Restate that question again,
please.



*Jeff:*  Did the Lucifer Rebellion’s interference bring about the
discrimination of people by different skin color and if not, can the 7 core
value model help to ameliorate this human trait?



*MACHIVENTA:*  I will address the second part of your question.  Most
certainly, the 7 values are most useful for doing that.  You would need to
use the social sustainability design and validation schematic to assist you
in that process.  It is a methodology that assists individuals to examine
the values, the beliefs, and under beliefs are assumptions and the
expectations and the criteria for fulfillment of what fulfills the
expectations.  Then all of those aspects in those columns are validated by
the criteria of the 7 values in the first column to the left.  When you do
that, you will find and you will see how discrimination is not socially
sustainable.  It is an attitude, a mindset of bias and inequality, and that
it shows a lack of empathy and compassion and “love of humanity,” for the
totality of all races and ethnicities of people.



When people hold ideas of negative opinions, bias, prejudice and bigotry,
they are saying in effect that they are not fully human.  To be fully human
as you were created by the Life Carriers, according to the designs that
were approved for those designs, that you are children of God, and that you
as humans carry the essence of your humanity in your genes that give you
the capacity to grow into your spirithood along the whole course of your
spiritual career.  These 7 values are used on many other planets where
sentient life is making will-decisions, moral, ethical, personal, social
will-decisions concerning how the individual views and interacts with
others.  These values are universal to your species and universal to
similar species on other planets, whether they are similar to your species
or not.



There is a necessity of a sense of equality that you are “all in this”
universal, spiritual ascendant career together, and that there is no
separation.  Ideas, thoughts, beliefs, attitudes and behaviors that espouse
separation are not in agreement with who you truly are as humans, which
means that on a moral level, you are less than human and that you have
decided to be immoral in the way you live.  I make that particular comment
because this will be the adjudicating factor for deciding who is moral and
who is not in a world that is entering into social sustainability and whose
societies have made the decision to use these 7 values to do so.  Those who
cause behavior or words that incite separation will be set aside, they will
be excluded, they will be exiled from the main group.  If you want social
stability, then you must get rid of the beliefs and
assumptions—particularly the assumptions and associated expectations—that
maintain separation between you and all others, between your race and other
races, other ethnic groups and your own, for instance, and between the
genders.  These attitudes are endemic on in almost all societies of Urantia.
They are evidence of a primitive planet when you see widespread bigotry,
prejudice, bias and negative opinions against genders, differences of
genders and races, and so on.



*Being less than human*



*Stéphane:*  I have a question, Machiventa, about this tendency to be less
than human, as it relates to the Planetary Supreme.  So, all of our
thoughts contribute to the Supreme, to the Gaia of this world, and this
remains on the planet beyond our stay here, and some of those negative
influences apparently have to be cleared.  Can you expand on that and how
this influences our day-to-day tendencies to be less than human?



*MACHIVENTA:*  One moment.  I will give you a partial answer.  As we
operate in the positive and we teach in the positive and in the
constructive, the answer is this:  That you make huge contributions to
Gaia, to the Planetary Supreme when you make decisions and take actions
that support the fullness of your humanness, which is the mirror of your
ascending soul.  You have much to give to this world.  We do not focus on
the negative, or the negative influence on you.  Doing so diverts and
deflects the personal responsibility for one’s own behavior and their own
thinking.  We are not stern parents, but we certainly are careful teachers
to teach you to monitor yourself and make contributions to yourself, to the
planet, and to your family and to your neighbors.



*Stéphane:*  Okay, then how about the responsibility for cleansing the
negative thinking of others?  Do we have the responsibility while we are
here on Urantia to partake in this cleansing?









*Cleansing negative thinking of others*



*MACHIVENTA:*  There is much harmful thinking that can emanate from that
position.  We encourage you, we teach you, we mentor you, and counsel you
to tend to your own garden and tend to your own thinking.  For a person to
take the position that “I am going to help cleanse the world of this
negativity” can take on an arrogant and condescending perspective, which is
very infantile and immature.  This is the difficulty of self-assigned
missions of righteousness.  One must be very careful to do that and we
leave that to angels, rather than mortals.



*Conflict between moral conscience and personal thoughts*



*Roxie:*  I have a personal question.  I’ve been reading in the *Urantia
Book* about Jesus’ discourse on the soul, and I discovered that I am having
a conflict between my moral conscience and being very critical of how my
government is being run, the lies, the subterfuge, the pandering to the
large corporations, while ignoring the true needs of the people.  This
doesn’t seem to be helping my soul growth because of my negativity.  Can
you help me with this?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Most certainly.  Again, you are most responsible for your
own thinking and for your words and your behavior.  You have total
discretion to monitor and control and guide your own thinking through your
will-self, your will-mind.  You can guide your immature mind to “mind its
own business.”  You then can nurture the soul growth that you are seeking.  On
the other hand, if you have the discretion to affect national outcomes and
the capacity to change the behavior of those who are in power, and do not
do so, then you are morally bereft and you should be most concerned about
your situation.  However, as we understand your personal political
situation, you have no capacity or ability to make those decisions;
therefore your morality is not impaired.  It is simply your erroneous
conscious mind thinking about its own thinking and going around in circles
chasing its tail that is bothering you so much.  You need to talk with your
Thought Adjuster and your Guardian to monitor and to curtail the activity
of your immature part of your mind.  That is the necessary aspect of your
social, emotional, and personality development.  You have a chore to do in
this lifetime and that is to monitor your thinking and to not follow its
negative lead.  You, as a will creature who know the 7 values and you know
your humanness, realize that being concerned about the immorality of your
government is not something that you can change by yourself.  It is one
aspect that is your challenge to live with and to grow through.



*Roxie:*  Thank you very much!  I appreciate that.



*Preparation for the changes to come*



*Jeff:*  Following up on Roxie’s question, you made the comment about a
month ago that we would hardly recognize the world by the end of the
year.  Instead
of gnashing our teeth, so to speak, about what we see in the leadership of
not only our country, but Europe and Asia, is there something more positive
that we should be actively doing for ourselves and our group and our
personal missions to get prepared for changes that you say are unstoppable?



*MACHIVENTA:*  One moment.  I am chuckling because this has been the tenant
of all of our discussions for the last many years that is all about the
positive.  The detrimental cataclysms that we give you are the things that
you are striving to avoid.  We have given you much direction and guidance
for your personal lives, your family and your community as to how you can
move forward positively to engage a future that will be much changed.  You
should not be in fear of what is to come by year’s end, but you should be
in fear of what you have not done to prepare.  Your question is appropriate
as it is perhaps asked by many people.  It is a time to now to set your
house in order to make right that which you have need to do.  And to refer
back to your earlier question about the debt forgiveness jubilee and
knowing what is to come, it is not a time to go out and buy another house,
3 cars and a yacht and a vacation and be deeply indebted, and then
hopefully this debt forgiveness will come along and wipe away all of your
debts.  That is surely inviting trouble that you do not need into your
life, and that is an incredibly immature way to proceed.  Our statements
are not meant as a warning, but an advisement that it is now time to get
your house in order and to right the wrongs that you may have caused and to
be in right alignment with yourself. . .



[This is *Daniel:*  Excuse me—I lost that one.]



 *MACHIVENTA:*  Was there more to your question, Jeff?



*Jeff:*  No, I think you answered it very specifically.



*The 7 values and current movements in society*



*Stéphane:*  Along the same line, could we use some of the day-to-day
events that we see today and put them in light of the 7 values, for
instance the #MeToo movement that we are seeing today?  There seems to be a
cleansing going on and that is definitely aligned with the 7 core values,
whether we look at each one of them and apply them to current events, such
as this one, or the Arab Spring of years ago and the 1% Movement, and other
similar event?  I would suggest to apply the 7 core values to current event
so we can train our minds to get ready.  Can you elaborate on this?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, and I say “yes” again!  You have hit upon the major
tenant of our work now, and the work of Nebadonia and her many Corps of
Angels.  What you are seeing is the outworking of the influence to raise
the consciousness of your world.  You are seeing it through the 1% Movement.
The #MeToo movement is particularly important to your world and to your
national societies at this time because the maturity of a planet is
measured in its capacity to tolerate differences, even at the most
elemental level, which is at the gender level.  It is important to use
these 7 values to weigh the rightness of the #MeToo movement as an example.
What has motivated these women to come forward is the violation of their
equality, the violation of who they are, and the egregious demonstration of
the arrogance of men to hold differences against women and see them as
objects to be used as they wish.  This is one of the most intolerable
aspects that we see on your planet and it is pandemic throughout all of
your cultures.  It is more so in many cultures, but it is obvious in this
culture and that of Western civilization.  Particularly in democracies, the
abuse of women has been hidden, has been cloaked by power and control of
those who have been abused.  This no longer is tolerable and we—the Angelic
Corps, the Melchizedeks and many others—have worked to a high degree to
bring this present.



Now, if you were looking at the reasons why women have started this
movement, using these 7 core values, you would see that when one value is
violated that they all are violated.  For instance, these violations
decrease the *quality of life* of the individual, both intra-personally and
inter-personally, that they have been abused and they have been denigrated
either publically or in their own self-knowledge that they have been deemed
to be less than nothing, or have no worth or value to be abused this way.  This
goes to the heart and core of a person’s capacity to *grow* into their
innate capacity that they brought with them at birth.  When an individual
sees how they have been abused, it stultifies them and limits their
capacity to grow into their innate capabilities and potential.



In its most egregious perspective is that it is a behavior of vast
inequality, that the person is treated as a slave was treated many
centuries ago.  And out of *equality*, you see that the individual who does
the abusing has absolutely no empathy for the victim, and that they have no
compassion for the individual at all, and that what the predator is saying
is that they have no love of humanity, other than for themselves as a
predator and user and abuser of women.  Ultimately, this challenges life,
that the life of the victim is threatened in all regards and all aspects of
the 7 values, that life has become almost meaningless and some have
committed suicide.  When this develops to this point you are seeing the
grossest inhumanity to your fellow brothers and sisters and it is
intolerable—should be intolerable to you and to everyone else, male or
female.



That is an example that is easily replicated for most other crimes, most
all other forms of abuse.  It can be quite subtle socially when you hear
someone in a group of people speak sarcastically about another individual
who is in that group, and they are very sincere about sarcasm.  Sarcasm is
the lowest level of rage that exists in predators, and is a form of social
abuse; it is also intolerable to us and it also violates all the 7 values
that you have asked us illustrate.  Thank you very much for your question.



*Roxie:*  I appreciated that answer very much; thank you, Machiventa.



*Liz:*  Me too; that was very nice.  That’s also a good illustration for
our course work.



*Jeff:*  I agree.  It’s almost a perfect plug.





*Doug:*  I don’t have a question today, and I’m going to say goodbye.  See
you next time.

[Note:  Doug is at work and calls in during his break.]



*The age of materiality on a global level*



*Stéphane:*  I have somewhat of a question about this age of materiality
that we are living in that’s allowing movements like #MeToo and to become
global consciousness rather than localized, thus allowing the movements to
challenge the established status quos in society. This age of materiality
has also allowed us to be self-destructive, as evidenced by the existence
of 15,000 nuclear warheads in existence today giving our races the ability
to destroy ourselves many times over. This material age is working for us
while it is also working against us in other ways, but it has allowed for a
proliferation of global consciousness at many levels.  Can you comment that
this was intentional in the development of Urantia for this to happen in
this order?



*MACHIVENTA:*  By question do you mean the development of material?



*Stéphane:*  Yes, to happen at this time and for this consciousness to
arise at the global level?



*MACHIVENTA:*   No, it was not an intentional development from spiritual
intervention but rather of natural social evolution.  It is a consequence
of the materialism that began before and after the industrial revolution
that began the focus on material goods to solve problems and that taken to
extremes it has developed as it has.  What has not occurred is the
counterbalance of social consciousness of individuals, leaders and others
to come forward and curtail the materialism that has developed.  As you can
see, and as you read in the *Urantia Book,* in comparison to other worlds
the materialism that is rampant on your world is an extreme position.  It
now rests way out of skew of the vast majority of planets that have gone
through similar eras of material development and industrialization as has
Urantia.



Saying this, it is not an intention for these things to have occurred; it
is however the intention of Christ Michael before and after his ascension
as Jesus to make plans for the Correcting Time which you are now seeing and
participating in.  The actuarialists or the forecasters of planetary
development at the Uversa level of observation are very accurate in
surmising what will occur in centuries ahead.  These forecasts were
available to Christ Michael, and even with his own powers of observation of
the future he knew ahead that this planet would be in desperate need of the
Correcting Time and its inception at a particular time when it would be
well received when the difficulties of your world required its corrective
presence, the presence of the Correcting Time programs.



*Rise in human consciousness*



When you have such foresight, you can prepare ahead for the opportunities
that allow you to take advantage of negative circumstances, and fortuitous
circumstances.  One can make wonderful plans ahead knowing what will occur,
and for the time that it is needed and under the circumstances and the ways
to appeal to individuals to participate in these programs.  We are almost
at that point now through Nebadonia’s work on this world through her
Angelic Corps to influence and raise the consciousness and particularly the
vibration of human consciousness, the collective human consciousness on
Urantia.  This in our terms is a vast success and you are seeing this in
many places.  What is allowing the coalescence of common thoughts and
opinions and values to come forward in the #MeToo movement, for example, is
that there were people ready for this at a time when it appeared.  Now
there are individuals who are coming forward who would not have otherwise
stepped forward to have their say about how they were abused and make it
known to the world that it unfortunately has been a common occurrence
throughout all your cultures.  As we have said before, what is missing for
the vast number of unspoken people who hold similar values and opinions and
attitudes about the injustices that occur in your world, whether it is the
1%, 99% or many other situations, is that there has heretofore been no
coalescing influence to bring like-minded people together.  What we are
striving to do through the 7 values is to bring commonality into awareness
of everyone, regardless of culture, regardless of race, regardless of
gender.



The questions you have asked today regarding the 7 values are primary to
the coalescence that will occur in the future.  Because the 7 values are
common to all people and innate to all people, they will eminently make
sense to everyone when social programs are based on these values that
appeal to those people.  You will find a growing commonality among millions
of people who have seen no sense of participating in some of these
movements, but have been waiting for something that appeals to them at
their level of awareness, something that is common to them and their
thinking.  Does this make sense to you?



*Stéphane:*  Yes, thank you.



*Using shame as a deterrent *



*Jeff:*  Machiventa, this is Jeff again.  I’d like to ask an ancillary
question to Stéphane’s and that is:  Is society capable of using shame as a
control over people’s behaviors and habits?



*MACHIVENTA:*  Repeat that again, please.



*Jeff:*  I’m asking you to comment on the power of “shame” to have sexual
predators and predators of all other kinds of things as a deterrent to
their behaviors.  I don’t know that we can physically, as a society, put
people in jail or lock them up or fine them, or do this and that, to modify
their behavior on their own, and I am asking you your thoughts on the
concept of “shame.”



*MACHIVENTA:*  I understand.  Let us take it back to the life of Jesus.  Did
Jesus ever shame anyone?  No, he did not.  He used parables, he used
stories, he used his teachings to bring people into the awareness of
something being wrong and not being right.  Shame is an abusive emotional
attitude and reaction of individuals.  It has often been used for negative
results than the positive.  Shame is not a tactic that we use and it is not
part of our repertoire of coaching and mentoring to individuals, or the
Most Highs to groups of individuals or organizations.  Shame is powerful,
but only negatively as it is so destructive, and if you take the test of
the 7 values, shame does not fit anywhere as an answer to those values.



*The alternative to jails*



*Stéphane*:  Thank you for that answer.  I want to discuss how to
rehabilitate the guilty ones, instead of locking them up, so they can come
back as valuable members of society. What are the prerequisites for this
change in our society?  I would venture to guess we need people to believe
in the 7 core values as a core part of their beings.  If that was the case
for everyone, of course, there would be no need for locking people up and
we would be able to implement systems in place to help everybody out that
is not fully aligned.  But what are the prerequisites for allowing a change
in how we deal with violence instead of locking people up?  What needs to
happen?



*MACHIVENTA:*  I am very pleased with your question, because it is a
primary moral question to the advancement of social evolution of societies
on primitive planets such as Urantia.  The prerequisites are huge, if you
take this situation of your societies and civilization now, it has long
been stated by philosophers that you know the maturity of a society by how
it treats its criminals, and the conditions of its prisons.  There must be
a complete shift in thinking about the individual as a personally
responsible individual and contributor or detractor of the social progress
and evolution of society.



*What is needed is a moral evaluation of behavior*



There are fundamentally, basically three positions of individuals in your
society:  1) those who make positive contributions; 2) those who make no
contributions but do not do any harm; and, 3) those who are detractors and
actually retard the social progress and evolution of your societies, even
at the expense of victims who may be damaged for the full duration of their
lives and incapable of overcoming those harmful, detrimental situations and
predatory acts.  What is truly needed is a thorough moral evaluation of the
behavior of individuals.  As This One has been taught, we have spoken about
personal responsibility, that the individual is responsible for their
behavior.  On the primitive concept of correcting detrimental social
behavior, locking individuals up is of no use; you simply delay the obvious
result that will occur when they are released.  Sexual predators are the
most resistant to correction.  They are ingrained in their mind by their
capacity and their sense of self-entitlement that all others are to be used
for their benefit and their gratification.



*Society’s moral responsibility to remove predators from society*



What is also needed at the most basic level, after you come to the
assessment of personal responsibility or the incapacity of an individual to
correct their behavior when they are free in society is the ultimate moral
responsibility for society to remove them from society, permanently.  It is
your civilization, your societies, particularly your democracies that are
egregiously delinquent in making these assessments and to make clear the
difference between a societal responsibility for protecting those who make
contributions and to those who are neutral, from those who would make
predatory, detrimental actions and behaviors to the destruction of
individuals and to the detriment of your societal progress and evolution.  It
is one thing for a person to kill another individual, which is completely
immoral and unethical in all regards.  That action is something that can
cause detriment to the individual’s survival as a soul, particularly when
it is intentional.  Accidental death is another issue.



For you to undergo the growth in social stability that you are speaking of,
society must take the societal, moral responsibility to remove these people
permanently from your society.  You do not live in an amoral society, but
an immoral society because your society has not chosen to remove these
individuals.  It would rather leave those individuals in your society to
the detriment of dozens, if not hundreds of victims whose lives will be
changed through the negative for the duration of their life, than to remove
that individual to protect innocent victims.  This is a moral quandary that
has not even been pondered by your society and your government.  You are,
in our estimation—and I say this strongly—*you are a morally spineless
society!*  Democracies should not and must not tolerate such egregious
behavior by individuals to the detriment of future generations.



*Jeff:*  Very straightforward.



*Liz:*  Well, that’s true, and that also goes for our lack of population
control, when you speak of being a *spineless society*.  I understand that
completely.



*MACHIVENTA:*  Those two themes run together.



*Jeff:*  Yes.



*Liz:*  We have much work to do.



*The immaturity of our societies*



*MACHIVENTA:*  Yes, that was a powerful statement, but it needs to have
been said, and now hopefully through these statements, you can understand
the immaturity of your societies and the immense need for the Correcting
Time and for conscientious, moral, spiritually evolved individuals to
participate in our work.  This is not work for cowards; this is not for
those who are socially or morally reticent, but those who are willing to
engage a situation appropriately, when it arises.  We are not espousing
individuals to cause problems or to demonstrate in the streets, or to
otherwise give attention to what we are saying.  These are natural
developments that will develop out of the cataclysms in the near to medium
future.  There will be a necessity of survival to make these tough moral
decisions — decisions that are in total agreement with the 7 values of
social sustainability.  There are several levels of using those values:  the
personal level, the family level, the social level, and societal level.  They
all have their moral repercussions when you engage them at those different
levels.  The responsibilities accrue individually to each level accordingly
to the 7 values.



*Talking about capital punishment with others*



*Jeff:*  Along the line you are speaking, would you encourage us or
discourage us from visiting capital punishment in the early formation of
our classes and web sites and materials?



*MACHIVENTA:*  First we need commonality in our thinking on that subject.  For
any planet that is engaging in its advancement towards social stability and
social sustainability there is no capital punishment.  The aspect of
punishment is primitive.  Punishment has no social value to the individual
or to society.  One either decides to be compliant to the requirements of
living in a stabilizing society or they do not, and those who do not always
seem to cause acts of separation that put them apart in a moral situation
where they are no longer acceptable to the larger society.  Though there is
no punishment involved, there would be a process of rapid adjudication that
would determine whether the individual is capable of remediating their own
thinking in their lives by their and decisions or not.  If there was a
particular act involved that would question their survivability then that
must be made; if it is in this regard, all decisions have nothing to do
with punishment and all decisions are positive.  The person would then be
simply removed from society permanently.



*Understanding the removal process*



*Jeff:*  I guess I don’t understand the removal process; are you speaking
of banishment, or are you speaking of just dispatching them to the Ancients
of Days?



*MACHIVENTA:*  There is no banishment; banishment and imprisonment are
socially unsustainable.  The process of handing them over to the Ancients
of Days is a process that requires much attention in your society.  You can
view the primitiveness of your society as it thinks about and makes edicts
to terminate the life of an individual.  There are many processes used now
that are primitive to the extreme and that would never be used in a society
that is advancing towards social stability.  You have many nominal means of
dispatching an individual peacefully, carefully, quietly without
aggrandizement of violence.  For example, and we draw this from your own
experience in your societies, either personally or as you watch the news,
that your police stations often have in their storage lockers as evidence,
many kilos of heroin and morphine.  If you made a liquid intravenous drip
out of heroin, you could dispatch a person rather quickly, peacefully and
painlessly and quietly, without any evidence of violence.  You have many
drugs that are used by physicians, which would be highly useful, besides
the opiates:  Fentanyl is one of them that is used by many people who have
passed on voluntarily, or accidently.  You have several examples of
celebrities in this last year and the year before.  These are non-violent
drugs that are simply very useful for terminating life in a peaceful way.  You
do not need to be a medical genius to think of the processes to bring about
death peacefully.



*Human rights*



*Stéphane:*  So the words that comes to mind are “human rights”.  If we had
this debate, the challenge would be around “human rights”.  But what I
think is missing along the lines of human rights discussion are society’s
rights and society’s primal right to be able to sustain itself. I think
this is where the whole conversation goes astray in that human rights are
held in much higher esteem than society’s right to exist peacefully.



*MACHIVENTA:*  Your question overlays something more fundamental.  The 7
values have sustained your species’ survival, and now through the
Correcting Time, we are striving to apply the 7 values to sustain your
*social* existence.  Heretofore there has been no means to create a
socially sustainable society or nation, or civilization.  It has simply
come into being and was eventually eclipsed by its own ignorance of the
intention to become sustainable into a long and distant future.  One of
your concerns that underlies your question is the fact that you are moving
from *personal* survival to the survival of societies.  This is a
completely new level of awareness and the concern that we have is not just
the survival of this generation, but for all future generations.



As your world and your societies, particularly this society that you live
in in the United States, is undergoing much moral decay and disintegration
at the social/societal level, governmental/political level and the
financial/economic level and especially egregiously at the family level.  Your
societies are failing to produce individuals who are socially sustainable
as leaders who could make contributions to the sustainability of future
generations.  When the rights of individuals surpass the rights of all
future generations, then something is very morally wrong with your society.
Yes, there is a concern for human rights; humans do have rights as
individuals, but they surely do not eclipse the moral rights of future
generations to live in peace.



*Jeff:*  A very good point; thank you.



[*Daniel:*  You guys are working this; this is good stuff!  I’ve not heard
questions like this out of anybody in the last 16 years.  You’re plowing
new ground.



*Jeff:*  Well, Daniel, I think that that is because there are now tools at
our disposal to leverage much of what is being said into cultural movements
and away from the politics that we have known in this country for 250 years.



*Daniel:*  And what I see in your work with Liz at the college level, now
hopefully you are beginning to see that the topics of social evolution and
morality becomes a larger part of a 4 year program, that your work is to:
1) Introduce social sustainability and for it to be accepted as a viable
course, even if it is just one course for one quarter, 2) and then have it
evolve through discussion groups into larger groups and more classes, such
as has occurred during this session today.  To ask those questions about
the worth of the 7 values to examine moral issues in social situations,
that leads to great thinking.



*Jeff:*  I think we are seeing examples coming out, day-to-day that put in
light of the 7 values are extremely applicable.



*Daniel:*  Yes, and by working the 7 values, you come up with far different
answers, and oftentimes answers that would never come about through the old
traditional means of discussion.



*Stéphane:*  Such as we’ve heard today.



*Daniel:*  I’m kind of at a close here guys.



*Jeff:*  Speaking of working, we’ve worked you pretty hard today!



*Daniel:*  Yes, there was a little bit of energy coming through me today,
as I felt.



*Roxie:*  Does Machiventa have a closing statement for us?



*Daniel:*  Yes, he does.  Thank you for moving us there.]



*Closing statements*



*MACHIVENTA:*  As you see from our very fluid and engaged conversation and
dialog today, there are vastly important questions that have not ever been
asked before, only through perhaps one or two philosophers over coffee in a
coffee house, over brandies at a tavern.  It is time now to bring all these
questions forward into the public view, and certainly you have many that
can be asked by educated individuals using the 7 values to examine these
issues and gain answers and insights into your social situations which
heretofore have not existed.  We hope that you are beginning to see that
you and we are living on the cusp of the moral regeneration of this world,
and that you and we have the means to do so, and that through Nebadonia’s
and Christ Michael’s plans to raise the consciousness of the world, you
will not be alone, and we will not be alone as we work with you and engage
millions of other people who have similar concerns for themselves, their
children and future generations.  It is imperative that all this
examination not be focused on this generation, but on the welfare and
sustainability of future generations.  You and we truly hold the
sustainability and the survival of future generations in the palms of our
hands now, within the spans of your lifetimes.  We thank you and good day.

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